Mark Evanier: [00:00:00] With a nice welcome from Mr. Frank Miller. Um, Frank, you have been doing comics. What? What year did you guys tell your first professional work?
Frank Miller: [00:00:09] 1982.
Mark Evanier: [00:00:11] Hey, now, I remember noticing you about 84, because that’s when you started doing things that no one had done before. And you did a lot of it on a strip called Daredevil, which you had everybody in the world. Yeah. And no one’s Daredevil expanded on the premise. No one’s Daredevil show you anything that hadn’t been done before. Uh, did you pick Daredevil or was that picked for you? Well, um.
Frank Miller: [00:00:41] I did essentially, because I, I was well, I’ve been doing a lot of work for DC comics, and at the time, Marvel was the place to be, and I was and I was doing dribs and drabs for DC comics And, uh. You know, I really wanted to break into Marvel. That was. That was where people were. There was an energy there at that time. And so I, uh, when I was offered Claw the Unconquered DC comics.
Mark Evanier: [00:01:18] I was offered Frank Miller: Claw the Unconquered. And we’re gonna have.
Frank Miller: [00:01:21] A fight right here. But but it’s a, you know, it was a it was a Conan ripoff, but, uh, I, uh, I went straight to Jim Shooter and said I’d just been offered a book, and he said, I don’t think you’re good enough to have a regular Marvel comic book yet, but. I promise to keep you busy. You’re never gonna be without work. And so I went with I went with that offer and God always had a marvel to in one. Or you know, of this and that. And then along came me doing two issues of the I guess it was The Spectacular Spider-Man that Bill Mantlo was writing. So he was a filling artist, uh, working with the the wonderful Frank Springer, you know, a fine artist in his own right, but also just a cracker Jack inker. And, uh, it was the whole story was about Spider-Man and Daredevil as Spider-Man was struck blind. Well, Daredevil was the character. I had the most fun with him. As much as I’d always wanted to draw Spider-Man being a Steve Ditko fan. And so when I finished the job, you know, he he you know, I told shooter, I, I, uh, if Daredevil ever became available, I really wanted to do it exactly at the time that that Gene Cohen ran screaming off it after doing exactly 400,000 issues. Um, and so I got my first regular gig. Also, it was luckily it had been selling so badly. It was bi monthly, which meant the slow folk like me was was able to do it as I did it. It went monthly and everything started to go on.
Mark Evanier: [00:03:27] Now, when you went to him and said, I want to work for you, and he said, you’re not ready for a regular book. Yeah. Is he right?
Frank Miller: [00:03:36] Yes. No. Not mainly. He was right because I couldn’t have handled the pace. All right. But also he. But I don’t think that’s why he said you’re not ready. No, I think he said I don’t, I don’t think. I think what he was saying was I don’t trust you yet to be reliable enough and so on. And I was willing to show him. I thought that he was within his bounds to say that, uh. And, uh, it was he was a, uh. Let’s just say it worked out well for me. So. I’m sorry.
Mark Evanier: [00:04:12] But if he had said to you, okay, we’ll give you a regular book. You got any Book of Ice? Which one would you have told him you wanted?
Frank Miller: [00:04:19] Spider-man.
Mark Evanier: [00:04:21] All right. Um, knowing that if you did Spider-Man, you’d be one of eight guys doing the Spider-Man at the same time?
Frank Miller: [00:04:28] Yeah, maybe it wouldn’t have been Spider-Man. No, no, I might have wanted a less visible character, too, because.
Mark Evanier: [00:04:34] Because when you were doing Daredevil, you were in complete control of Daredevil.
Frank Miller: [00:04:38] Well, I was dealing with. You always want to be, you know, my advice to my advice to young comic book artist you want to get break into the superhero market is pick a loser. Because if you fail, if you go there, advance the book anyway. But if you succeed, you’re a goddamn hero.
Mark Evanier: [00:04:59] And. And how long was it before you thought to yourself, I want to write this book, too.
Frank Miller: [00:05:07] Very soon. Um, you know, I mean, I, I, uh. Found myself, uh, asserting control over storylines, writing dialogue and so on. Um, and the, the, uh, and I was unsatisfied with, with the, the collaborators work, so I was, I was, I was very eager to, you know, and also waiting to have a vision for something. It’s it’s pretty strong.
Mark Evanier: [00:05:38] Okay. Um, now, I remember noticing that when you took over writing the book, the artwork got even better. Huh? You don’t think so?
Frank Miller: [00:05:51] Oh, I think so.
Mark Evanier: [00:05:52] Okay.
Frank Miller: [00:05:54] I’m having more fun. Klaus and I had had had, um, our our collaboration was just getting, you know, basically, if Klaus and I, uh, were a married couple, we were we were in our in our blossoming, you know, parts of the marriage, it was like every week we could read each other’s minds and, and, uh, and it’s and we were working very fast because you have to. And you reach the point where not only were you able to do a monthly book, but then we throw in a Spider-Man annual and that kind of thing.
Mark Evanier: [00:06:34] That’s great.
Frank Miller: [00:06:34] That’s nice. Yeah, that that that really is the way to do that kind of comics. I wish that kind of comics was still published.
Mark Evanier: [00:06:42] Yeah, it’s not around much these days. Um, when you were starting doing that, at what point did you get yearning to move on to something else. How many issues did you do with AWP? I know you. We know how many you did, but how many did? Did you get restless after?
Frank Miller: [00:07:00] Well, I gotta tell you that. That. After I ended the whole story of Electra, who that had become the heart and soul of it, which was the dark romance. Um, between these two enemies, um, had had had really become the, you know, and the kind of Shakespearean structure of the king and Bullseye and Electra and Daredevil, uh, had had really become this, this sort of mutant spine that the stories all fed into. Um, and then they they I was pulled toward an inevitable clap, uh, you know, uh, climax. And she just plain had to die. Uh, and, uh, you know, which was quite a quite a big and controversial decision. Uh, which my editor simply said no to, uh, you know, he said. And I said, well, why not? And I proved to him and it was Danny O’Neil who was an accomplished writer. And, and, uh, and I said, but no, here’s why it’s got to happen, Danny. And he said, now, look, shooter won’t won’t let us do that. And I said, well, I just said it to you. So obviously nobody’s asked him. And, and, uh, he said, but I know, I know, he just would. That lecture is now more popular than Daredevil.
Frank Miller: [00:08:40] So he’s not going to let us kill him. And so I walked down the shooter’s office and I said, I told shooter the situation and shooters looked at me very sadly and he said, but she’s more popular than him. And I said, yeah, but it’s got to happen because otherwise she’s going to be an insipid character. And so it’s terrible. And he said, he looked at me with sad eyes and he said, tell me a story, Frank. And I told him in detail the the the climax of the Electra saga. And his face brightened and he said. This is great. We’ll end it in a double, double sized issue. And, and, uh, we did that and, and, uh, but anyway, to really answer the full question that Mark was asking after that, I’ve got to admit the tension of the in the the melodramatic or Shakespearean tension in the book felt like it was evaporating, and I felt my own interest started to slacken. And I started doing stories that were, uh, sometimes comedies and so on, and finally decided, I’m not I’m not the guy for this job anymore, you know? And and, you know, it’s time for new hands.
Mark Evanier: [00:10:15] The was the resistance to killing her merchandising was that the readers won’t like you. Or what? What was the motive? Why? Was there any reason you couldn’t? What was the reason for not doing it?
Frank Miller: [00:10:28] I can’t, I can’t speak another man’s mind. I, I all I was told was. You know, shooter won’t like it.
Mark Evanier: [00:10:39] Well, since you brought him up, we were going to talk about him later. About Jim. Now, Jim Shooter was the editor in chief of Marvel for about 8 or 9 years. Yeah, yeah. And he came into a company that had a lot of chaos going on. And and he was his reign there was kind of controversial. Oh, God. Yeah. There were people who who didn’t like him. There were people who did like him. You were one who liked him.
Frank Miller: [00:11:01] I respected him greatly, and I liked him. Um, and I argued with him probably more than. More than most. But, uh, he. The problem is, the thing with Twitter was that he was someone who had. He was very conservative in nature. And very old school. My old school, I mean, early 1960s DC comics, the ones he wrote when I was reading them and I was five, and he was what?
Mark Evanier: [00:11:36] He was a teenager.
Frank Miller: [00:11:37] He was like 13 or something.
Mark Evanier: [00:11:39] Jim Shooter was kind of a wunderkind in that he started writing comics when he was 13 or 14 years old, and he did them for a man named Mort Weisinger, who was the editor of.
Frank Miller: [00:11:48] Oh my God, yes.
Mark Evanier: [00:11:50] Who was the terror and who people hated. And people had nightmares about working with him.
Frank Miller: [00:11:55] And I think I think that basically scarred by Weisinger, he took on a lot of that persona himself. And because he, Jim, terrified people. Um, the, the the, uh, uh, I mean, I don’t think he knew how he projected it because he was also a, you know, he was also a a very big man who had a bit of a Frankenstein look to him and, and, and, uh, you know, I’m just just being, you know, that wasn’t meant as any joke. Uh, and, and when he spoke, he spoke gruffly, and, uh, and he was, he was, he was, you know, it was. It was almost like. It was almost like you. More than he was was, you know, this this demon inside of him or something? Uh, and it, uh, so it where what I’ve got to say, though, is this is a man I learned a great deal from. Um, although I once I learned enough, I realized that I was okay. Now, I was ready for for high school and, you know, and, and and, uh, because he taught certain fundamentals that did work and got you there. But but they but but you were really there was so much more to learn. Um, but mainly it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, uh, just because what I’m talking about is somebody who really did absolutely believe in the hero. And I was absolutely devoted to Stanley and to and to the Marvel mythology and saw and basically no doubt, no doubt saw himself as a samurai working for working for Marvel Comics. None of this was insincere. None of this was false. It’s just that that that isn’t where things were going. And, uh, and the, uh. The medium and the industry were we’re moving past that and he and and so that just made him angrier. And, uh, basically, he became a rather frightening thing.
Mark Evanier: [00:14:36] Well, he was notorious for teaching a writer’s Basics and basic story structure using fairy tales. Yes. Such things like that.
Frank Miller: [00:14:46] Yeah.
Mark Evanier: [00:14:47] Did you ever try doing that with you?
Frank Miller: [00:14:49] What? Yeah.
Mark Evanier: [00:14:51] Did you learn anything?
Frank Miller: [00:14:54] Well, I got it. I mean, it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s, uh.
Mark Evanier: [00:14:57] What was it was it a lesson in how to how to write good comics or how to or how to please Jim Shooter? And not that those two things had to be mutually exclusive, but.
Frank Miller: [00:15:07] No, I know you mean well. For instance, when he said he would say Little Miss Muffet sat on a topic eating her kids away, keys away, along came a spider and said that frightened Miss Muffet away. Nice. Yes, Jim. Stories of three. Act structure.
Mark Evanier: [00:15:30] Here’s miss Muffet. Yeah. There’s the spider. She runs away. That’s three. Yeah. Sounds like three sentences to me, but. Okay.
Frank Miller: [00:15:38] Yeah. No, no, it isn’t for you. But that’s what I mean is that is I thought I was getting it what he meant, because I had to assume he wasn’t speaking of tongues.
Mark Evanier: [00:15:50] Marvel at that time was trying to expand new properties, new characters, and a lot of people wouldn’t create for them because they didn’t like the deal. It’s really bitter, like some other people had created their characters. Did they ever seen.
Frank Miller: [00:16:04] Like, all of the people?
Mark Evanier: [00:16:07] Yeah. Did they ever come to you and say, how about creating a brand new book for us?
Frank Miller: [00:16:12] Yeah, yeah, they did, and I’d already created a rather popular character. Um, but I had but I was already way ahead of that, having come up with road and, and planning it and knowing wanted to do it. Um.
Mark Evanier: [00:16:34] You don’t want to do it or didn’t want to do it on the terms you need it.
Frank Miller: [00:16:36] Oh, no, I said, knowing I wanted to do.
Mark Evanier: [00:16:39] Knowing.
Frank Miller: [00:16:40] And, you know, I was, I was come on, I was did you know I was the, the, you know, the the prettiest girl at the, at the high school dance at the time. You know it, you know, after John Byrne, of course. And, and uh, and so I marvel was more and more, uh, eager to see me create, uh, but. I had two things that I wanted. One is the, the copyright, which I understood to be ownership never fall for that. It’s it’s a component of the ownership of of something. But at that and creative autonomy. And there I was running into two obstacles that could not be overcome. It was I was. I’ve got to say that that, uh, you know, when when once there was epic and all of that copyright could have come, but it would have been heavily entangled. Um, but creative autonomy, uh, I could not exist in a world I could not believe. There was a world in which Jim Shooter and somebody else’s creative content could exist.
Mark Evanier: [00:18:03] Well, I know.
Frank Miller: [00:18:04] He had his way of saying.
Mark Evanier: [00:18:06] I did a book with him for ten years that, uh, we all retained copyright and creative autonomy. Yes, but it was a novel that didn’t intersect anyway with the rest of it. That’s right. So they would not have tolerated that. Uh, before I move off this subject, is there anything else you want to say about Jim Shooter?
Frank Miller: [00:18:23] Yeah, yeah, I will. This is on a more personal level. I, uh, you know, I spent a few days in Pittsburgh with him, and, uh, I got a portrait of the guy that I don’t think many people have got. And. And you being with him there and meeting family and and and seeing him in that, in that area and, you know, in among the, in that, in that sort of like that city was a, a study in, in America after industrial collapse. It was, you know, it was it looked kind of like it looked kind of like an American to, to use a Kirby term. And I mean, it’s in a Kirby sense, apocalypse. And, uh, see him there. He it gave me a deeper sympathy for him because because I could see the place he came from and I could. And you know. And I’ve got to say it and I, I, I knew that because of the skin condition he had, he been very ridiculed because he was freakishly tall and had hard skin as he grew up.
Mark Evanier: [00:19:49] And so people told him on his back, they called him lurch.
Frank Miller: [00:19:52] Yeah, yeah. And so he did. There’s a side of him that was very isolated, you know, isolated fellow. And so so, you know, people like that when they come into power can be pretty frightening. But for all of that, he he was my friend and he did inject. Uh, some energy and some, some, some, uh, cohesion to what Marvel was doing that that put it really at the top for a long time. But he was like Mayor Giuliani came in to to New York City. I was around for it. The city was a laughing stock for his crime, and he was killing the city and Giuliani. Running the city like a cross between a mafia boss and a tyrant. Um. Brought order. He kicked you? He came. He changed the city, and it became safer and more productive. That was his first term. His second term was not so good because Giuliani became became over control and started making ridiculous rules and and was practically ridden out of town on a rail. Um, and in a way that you could use that as a mirror for sure. That, that he really did much to revive Marvel Comics, but reached the point where top people and good people, writers and artists were. Confronting the publisher, storming out and and, uh, the whole ship was sinking. So to tell the story of Jim Shooter is not to tell any simple story. I’m just when I talk about it, I talk about it’s just a major figure in comics history. Uh, and, uh, and sort of as one of the. It’s one of those 5 million people I’ve ever known. And in his own way, Tragic.
Mark Evanier: [00:22:32] Okay. Now, I met you kind of when we were battling some of the forces that Jack Kirby was fighting.
Frank Miller: [00:22:40] Oh my God. Did we.
Mark Evanier: [00:22:41] Ever. Yeah. Um, over the original arch. Over his name.
Frank Miller: [00:22:45] Oh, I’ll have to bring up Jim Shooter in the course of this, too.
Mark Evanier: [00:22:48] Yes. All right. That’s fine, that’s fine. Um, and you were one of the people who was willing to put a lot on the line for Jack. Yeah, a lot of people were. They would whisper, while I’m on your side, Jack. Going to dive under the desk. Um. And you did an extraordinary thing. You got DC comics to side with Jack and his dispute with Marvel. I said publicly with that, yeah, I had this. And I knew Jack better than you did, because I.
Frank Miller: [00:23:16] Of course, you.
Mark Evanier: [00:23:16] Had no comparison. No, but I mean, I mean, he could.
Frank Miller: [00:23:20] Remember your name.
Mark Evanier: [00:23:23] Once in a while. Yes. He could. That’s right. But but the thing was that I’m interested in how you caught on, how you became sensitive to the problem he had. How you realized this man was being wronged by the people. In some cases, you were working for. Um, and how that did not dissuade you from coming? You know, we did a rumor. We did a radio show one night. Yes. Which of us? I think Steve Gerber was on it. And a few other people, and we, you know, practically declared war on Marvel that night. Yes. And, uh.
Frank Miller: [00:23:59] Oh, believe me, I got I got blowback from that.
Mark Evanier: [00:24:03] Okay. Did you enjoy that?
Frank Miller: [00:24:05] The blowback.
Mark Evanier: [00:24:06] Blowback? Yeah.
Frank Miller: [00:24:09] No. Come on. I was I was in the fight.
Mark Evanier: [00:24:12] Okay. How did you see what was the wrong that was done to Jack and others? Like, Jack was not the only person that said he had a larger set of problems. Because he had created a larger set of characters and a larger set of of platforms on which Marvel could build. Yes, but how did you you how did you see that?
Frank Miller: [00:24:34] I saw it. From a closer perspective than you did, Mark. Because I saw. I saw the. I can only call it in professional terms, the corruption of Marvel, as it turned on Jack Kirby, and he went from being a founding father to being. And I’m quoting this, Jack the hack. And here I’ve got to say, I got it, you know, um. And here is where you gotta I’ve gotta, you know, mention something about Jim that I’m very sorry to mention, but it just has to do with what a, you know, how dedicated he was to marble. Marble, marble was that, you know, one time I went into his office and he slid down his phone and grinned, and he said, well, I think we finally got Kirby by the balls. And that was over the artwork as well.
Mark Evanier: [00:25:45] Thank you. Yeah. Um, do you think that that. I know, I know, the answer is going to be obvious, but do you think that the attitude, the way Marvel was treating talent at that time? Yes. People like Jack Kirby, that if they had done the right thing, the company would have been five times the size and successful.
Frank Miller: [00:26:06] I mean, I can’t give you the numbers on that, but I think that that it’s first. I mean, there’s there’s no way to look at that question without giving a multi-layered answer. Because, for one thing is that is that it would have it would have done wonders for people like me to realize that there really was a respect to our craft. We were not regarded as suppliers, which what we were called on the contracts. Uh, and, and that there was a. Future in all of this that we weren’t just day laborers. It would it would, you know, it definitely would have affected that which, which would have been good for marvels, uh, in terms of people being generous with their creativity. Um, and and it, it, um. Actually, I just think that. I also basically think that it wouldn’t have you be gone? Begun a process of a hunkering down mentality that has persisted for a very long time.
Mark Evanier: [00:27:34] Now I want to jump ahead here because we’re not going to get through.
Frank Miller: [00:27:37] I’m sorry.
Mark Evanier: [00:27:39] No, no, no. That’s fine. I’m going to jump ahead here to the Dark Knight. Yes. All right. Tell us about the moment when you thought I’d like to do something with that man. And what struck me was that they seemed. And maybe this was not true, but the appearance was. They seemed very receptive to letting you do damn near anything you wanted. Yeah. All right. Did you get resistance from them on what you wanted to do at any point?
Frank Miller: [00:28:09] Uh, no. I was invited. Basically, they gave me the freedom they gave me on Ronin because Batman was what they wanted. And, uh. Dick Giordano wanted me to do something to do. To do something. He said to me, uh, now do you, Dick Giordano? For those who don’t know, was was the editorial chief at DC at the time was also a historic figure in comics. His collaborations with Neal Adams, of course, and beyond that, as an artist in his own right, going back a good, long ways. But but he was also a beloved figure at DC comics, and he very plain smoking spoke in Italian American. He just, you know, asked me into his office and he said, Frank, every time I go to these comic book conventions and we ask, we, we have these polls about who’s the most popular character. Batman always wins. He’s always number one, but we can’t sell it. Our sales numbers are in the toilet. And he said. He said, you got any ideas? And I said, I’ll get back to you. You know. And I walked home feeling I had just been handed the keys to the Magic Kingdom. And I. And coincidentally, I was 29 years old, dreading turning 30. And as I was walking on the sidewalk, I thought, yeah, but what if Batman got old? Really old, like 50. And then all of the pieces just started falling into place.
Frank Miller: [00:30:09] I was in a bus with with John Byrne, and we were babbling story ideas back and forth to each other as we went. I went to a convention to see the March of Dimes, and he said, and he was he was kind of like, you know, wrapping up and, and, uh, and then then he, he like. Sits down next to me the next day at one of the, at the table we’re at and pulls out a sketch pad. It just looks like John Drew. John Drew like a flash. Uh, and it was sort of like it’s, it’s it’s, uh, and and, uh, and it was this, this sort of like, adolescent girl at a, in a Robin costume that looked kind of gangly and so on and said, he said, you know, you’re a Robin could be a girl. Because I was I was leaving Robin out of that thing, and, and I, and I, uh, I went, hey, Thanks, man. You know, and I and I, and I, uh. Um. And I was married to Lynn Varley at that time. And, and, uh, and so I did a very, very, like, young adolescent version of her, you know, drawing in the suit. And I knew she had to she had to be the, the, the date of his, his his ninth.
Mark Evanier: [00:31:45] Okay. All right. You take this to DC and say, here’s what I want to do. And they said, let’s package this as a real special book. Yeah, yeah. Very fancy, very expensive. We’ll do a lot of promotion. Yeah. They were sending me all these little cutouts. Okay. Oh, yeah. And things like that. And what struck me was that it revolutionized Batman for the time you were doing it. But the people after didn’t learn on lessons, right? Right.
Frank Miller: [00:32:17] Right. Yeah. Well, that’s I think that’s that’s that’s really like Mark. Cruel but fair.
Mark Evanier: [00:32:31] But it’s here’s the here’s the thing that struck me about it. One of the things that I liked about what you did was it was the vision of one man. And obviously you had helped with the coloring and helped.
Frank Miller: [00:32:42] Yeah. But yeah, but it was. But no, but it was it was my show.
Mark Evanier: [00:32:45] It was your show. Yeah. Then it went back to being a committee created character. Yeah. And everybody was doing that. Yeah. Everybody was writing Batman. Everybody’s drawing Batman. Everybody had a different Batman. And this person’s Batman was Neal Adams Batman mixed with Frank Robbins Batman. And this person was doing Batman mixed with the Batman and things like that. And yours was. If there were no credits on that, I think people could have figured out your issues were done basically by one person in Charge. Yeah. You had control over all the whole package and things like that. Now, they had not given that to very many people ever.
Frank Miller: [00:33:23] No.
Mark Evanier: [00:33:24] All right. So how satisfied were you with the end product?
Frank Miller: [00:33:29] Oh, it was. I was, I was, I was, you know, I was very satisfied. They said what else? I mean, I knew that this was a book that no matter how well it was regarded, it would be it would be like one of the achievements of my life. And it’s something I remember very well.
Mark Evanier: [00:33:54] Did they start coming to you and saying, what can you do with these other characters?
Frank Miller: [00:33:58] There is. Yeah, yeah, there’s some of that.
Mark Evanier: [00:34:01] So anything you attempted to do that you didn’t do for them?
Frank Miller: [00:34:06] I wanted to do Superman. You know, and the the Superman ideas I had, I don’t looking for an intervention. They wanted to take them really, because mine was much more of a like a a Fleischer Brothers version. You know, they wanted they would they would have liked a dark to be the Dark Knight Superman and I would I wouldn’t want to do that.
Mark Evanier: [00:34:31] Yeah.
Frank Miller: [00:34:31] Because I don’t believe Batman is the case of the outer world resembling the inner psyche of the character. They’re they’re they’re mirror images. I mean, you are seeing the world that’s in his mind. And and the villains aren’t just bad people. They are monsters, and they’re monsters physically as well as as well as psychologically. Um, and with Superman, it would have been like doing, you know, the light night. Yeah.
Mark Evanier: [00:35:11] Well, let’s suppose we’re going to jump here to today and what you’re up to lately. Okay. Tell people what you’re up to lately. What do they what do they got? What do you got coming up? What do you got coming out?
Frank Miller: [00:35:23] Well, I got I’ve got a I. Well, there’s a couple series in particular coming out. There’s, there’s, uh, invasive species and, and, uh, let’s see, what’s the name of that other one?
Mark Evanier: [00:35:41] Um. But anybody.
Frank Miller: [00:35:45] Well, they knew where they were. Pandora. And and it’s it’s it’s it’s, uh, and and, uh, meanwhile, I’m doing all kinds of covers back and forth for all kinds of crazy people. And then but I’m working with horrible people, and I’m so glad they aren’t here. So I can speak openly, particularly about Alex and Claire. Notice she has a nice, friendly smile. He’s wanted in seven states. He did with that smile.
Mark Evanier: [00:36:24] Okay. And? Do we have some images we’re going to project here that I don’t know about? Hello?
Frank Miller: [00:36:41] What are you guys?
Ryan Benjamin: [00:36:42] I’m Ryan Benjamin.
[00:36:44] Alex Sinclair.
Frank Miller: [00:36:49] Ryan is. Ryan is. Is this frightening guy? Nine person. Don’t trust him, but not in person. But no, he’s he’s he’s one of those guys who’s who’s who’s, uh, who’s. I mean, you see, when you start the the penetrating, terrifying vision here. But he’s also. I’ve got to say, he’s one of those guys who like Jim Lee and is is is. There’s here’s this side of his brain that is explosive artist. And I swear the other side is it’s just from observation. I don’t know if he’s going to admit or deny it. There’s also a powerful part of him that is entrepreneurial. But this is a guy who.
Mark Evanier: [00:37:43] What is.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:37:45] This? That’s a pretty good description. Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Frank Miller: [00:37:50] And and so when I’m dealing with Ryan, he is seeing every angle coming in and it’s and it’s and I noticed observing his work and sometimes sometimes I’m studying Is, is that he is a three dimensionality of it. To it that I see, he’s already seeing the toys, you know, and the worlds he visually creates are, are places that you could visit are. Mhm. You know it’s it’s, it’s so he, he thinks in, in multimedia and, and it’s, it’s uh it’s and but with all of that he also could break your heart. Uh, and so it’s, so it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, his concept of space and aliens and, uh, and. The kind of enduring and the kind of endearing children I like to put in my stories these days. It all fits together wonderfully. This guy is intriguing to her. He’s nothing like ours.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:39:12] Well, he was. It’s interesting, uh, working with Frank because, um, you know, I first met him. It was. It was, you know, you usually meet, like, celebrities, and it’s usually like a wall between you and that celebrity, even if you meet them. I it instantly felt like there was no wall between him and Frank. And then when we started working together, I felt like he was like my long lost cousin. Yeah. So we just. We just connected from go fast. Immediately. Almost immediately. It’s like way how he thinks is how I think. And we just went back and forth and we would throw ideas around and we were like, oh man, this is this would be great. It’s been great.
Frank Miller: [00:39:57] From the first conversations.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:39:59] Yep.
Frank Miller: [00:39:59] We were talking over each other. We were, you know, throwing furnishings across the room. You know. Verbally? Yep. Um. And then I’ll tell you for me. Feeling started coming in. Mhm. And the most important thing about this series was there from the first appearance of them was that here they were, these, on the face of it, terrifying creatures who were out to in who were out to invade and basically possess not only the planet but the human mind. And I cared about and it helped me give them a voice. Um, that kind of made you wonder. You should not have be rooting for them, you know? That was it was it’s it’s a to me, that’s what that’s what you you know, this is my first real attempt at science fiction and, and and, uh, and so, but I’m always a, you know, I always have. Depend on the voice of the characters to tell the story rather than an omnipotent voice. And I mean, yeah, look at this. Up, up behind me at this shot, this, you know, this the top shot of the guy with the ears. And, I mean, that is just unforgettable panel because, I mean, it is it’s like the it’s like the stuff that, that, that Lucas and company, um, started achieving when Greg Nicotero really started creating the great aliens and, and, and, uh, and, you know, took you into, into a, um, a fairy tale world that was that was pretty monstrous.
Mark Evanier: [00:41:51] Tell us again, the name of this project.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:41:53] Is called Invasive Species.
Mark Evanier: [00:41:56] Invasive Species. And is this coming out now?
Ryan Benjamin: [00:42:03] It’s not up to me. Okay. If it was up to me, you guys would have it right now.
Mark Evanier: [00:42:08] Okay. It’s coming soon.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:42:10] Yeah.
Mark Evanier: [00:42:10] All right. What else you got coming for us? Anything. Anything you want to talk about?
Frank Miller: [00:42:17] I don’t know anything else going on.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:42:21] Let’s see.
Frank Miller: [00:42:22] Well, I’m working. I’m working on, uh, I’ve got two new Sin City projects.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:42:34] Yeah.
Frank Miller: [00:42:35] And one of them. One of them. It’s going to be the first time I ever let anybody else on the street. Sin city. Yeah. And which I never thought I’d do. Um. But I just didn’t. Lucca, Italy, with the Italian master Miro Ventura. And, uh, are you familiar with Milan? Menorahs? Work?
Mark Evanier: [00:42:59] Yeah.
Ryan Benjamin: [00:43:01] Hey.
Mark Evanier: [00:43:01] I ask you out of here.
Frank Miller: [00:43:03] Okay, let’s just say, put it simply. He’s he’s he’s he’s, uh, as fine illustrators as we’ve ever had that that, uh, he’s he’s on the order of Giraud Moebius. Or think of Alex Raymond or, you know, the other fine, fine illustrators we’ve had in comics. Uh, but the what he’s known for more than anything is the most beautifully, beautifully erotic work in comics history. And so here I am appearing with, with Mehlman, are on a panel. And I said, you know, when they told me about it, I said, that’s lovely, but why? Why? The two of us said, well, Milo requested it. Sure. Okay. And I went up on stage with me, Luminar, and we were, you know, chatting it up, back and forth, and then he interrupts the panel to, to, uh, to turn to me in front of a very large crowd and, and say and say, you know, in, uh, fluent English to ask me to write him a Sin City story. Well, Mark, what will you have said?
Mark Evanier: [00:44:29] What else you got?
Frank Miller: [00:44:32] No, I said, I, I told me, though, that yes, absolutely I would, but he’d have to learn how to draw women first. Anyway. Anyway.
Mark Evanier: [00:44:49] Well, how did he react to that?
Frank Miller: [00:44:52] He reacted. He reacted like a like a European. Amused Music European. What can I tell you? An elderly, amused, amused European. Now, if you’re already Europe, you know what I mean. But anyway. So of course, I put together a story about, um, the the girls of neighbor of the the girls of Old Town, the neighborhood of the neighborhood that the prostitutes run. Uh, like, I like to, you know, like a team of Valkyries and the mob boss. The linguists attempt to to take them over, and. And you see the turf war as the girl. It the girls, uh, put up too much resistance. And when you see what happens, that’s great.
Mark Evanier: [00:45:57] And we’re going to see this. When are we going to see this?
Frank Miller: [00:46:01] Ask Melo.
Mark Evanier: [00:46:04] Have you seen any finish?
Frank Miller: [00:46:06] Oh God. Oh God. Have I. Well before I even started writing the story, just because I did read on stage. Into my studio drafts. This drawing he did of my character Gail, who most people remember. That was enough to, you know, melt me and and, you know, I got that there when I’m working on that story is because it’s just it’s a, it’s a it’s like he comes and he reinterprets the character, but but not so that it changes the intent of the way I drew her. That is she still has that that confident A certain half smirk on her face. That’s also, you know, very sexy. And she. She holds an Uzi. Like it weighs ten ounces. Okay.
Mark Evanier: [00:47:10] Good. All right. So you’re very happy with this one so far?
Frank Miller: [00:47:14] Oh, yes.
Mark Evanier: [00:47:15] But not necessarily with the speed at which is being done.
Frank Miller: [00:47:18] Well. Come on. It’s like a no no, it’s it’s it’s coming. Why? You know.
Mark Evanier: [00:47:32] Do you have something else in the work that you’re going to do. Oh by yourself.
Frank Miller: [00:47:35] Yes, yes. Yeah. I’m returning to Sin City and, and, uh, and I’ve got several stories I want to do because they’ve been holding. I’ve been holding back for so long. But the one I will mention is, is I’m doing a Western that that takes place way before any of the previous ten cities. And uh, and it is an out in out west and you get to meet me Ma’s great great grandfather, who is who is an Apache, a rogue Apache Indian. And to see his tragic story.
Mark Evanier: [00:48:21] We are eager to see this. Are we not, folks?
Ryan Benjamin: [00:48:24] Yeah.
Frank Miller: [00:48:27] Thanks a.
Alex Sinclair: [00:48:27] Lot. So. So let’s send these men home.
Mark Evanier: [00:48:33] To get to work on this. Would you join me in thanking Mister Frank Miller for this album?
Alex Sinclair: [00:48:40] Thank you very much. Thank you.
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